Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two

February 8, 2014 - 10:30pm
edwinic



Country: Philippines

vavavoom wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcyJYY8zbyw

frown

Until i saw this video, i was not aware that the P9 is equipped with a blinker - a thoughtful feature.

February 8, 2014 - 11:04pm
Steveroot

Country: USA

orbit wrote:

If a diamond frame fails it does not tend to fall in half completely it has a lot of reserve in the frame design.

Yes, but they are heck to fold!

This is one of the compromises that has to be made: an easier-to-fold frame is more likely to include a highly stressed frame joint. Obviously the design and manufacture have to be done at a high level for this to work at all.

Meanwhile, not a lot is known about the frame problem yet, but with only two reports thus far I'd be inclined to withhold the sweeping generalizations. I'd keep an eye on the joint anyway; it can't hurt.

Steve

February 9, 2014 - 8:13am
orbit

Country: UK


Yeah Steve thats right a diamond frame is a real pig to fold. NOT A GOOD THING TO TRY. LOL

February 9, 2014 - 10:04am
Keith Terry

Country: UK


Checked my D8. No indications so far.

Isnt it unlikely a recurring problem would be confined to one model?

Evans are now offering the 2014 D8.

February 9, 2014 - 10:16am
Steveroot

Country: USA

orbit wrote:

Yeah Steve thats right a diamond frame is a real pig to fold. NOT A GOOD THING TO TRY. LOL

Unless your bike is equipped with S&S Couplers! http://www.co-motion.com/index.php/information/ss_couplers

Not so good for quick folding for commuting or storage, though... better for packing for air travel.

Steve

February 9, 2014 - 10:30am
Steveroot

Country: USA

Keith Terry wrote:

Isnt it unlikely a recurring problem would be confined to one model?

It depends on the cause of the problem. A poor design could result in wide distribution of the problem. (Spoiler Alert: only 2 occurrences reported.out of thousands of frames...)

Other types of problems could be limited to a single shift or even a shorter time. It would be reassuring to learn that the two failures reported thus far were not manufactured on the same day.

Steve

February 12, 2014 - 9:31am
vavavoom

Country: Greece


I just bought mine, 2 hours ago.                           

The bike feels as solid as a rock.

I am so happy. I took it for a 30 min ride and I just can't explain how much I've been missing all these years without a bicycle. I am a kid again.

This company has earned my trust.

It's too early to speak, I'll update if I ever notice anything wrong.

Which I seriously doubt.

February 15, 2014 - 11:54pm
Keith C. Johns



Country: USA

Steveroot wrote:

...Other types of problems could be limited to a single shift or even a shorter time. It would be reassuring to learn that the two failures reported thus far were not manufactured on the same day.

Steve

Actually, if the serial numbers were sequential--i.e., made the same day at the same factory, that would narrow down the causes to perhaps a single cause, perhaps an ill-trained welder, or some bad welding rod or stock, or improper hardening temperatures, etc.--easier to fix a single cause than a system-wide problem which only randomly surfaces.

With no official words forthcoming thus far, it would appear to be more systemic than a single cause/easy fix. Still, we hope for the best outcome.

February 16, 2014 - 12:07am
Steveroot

Country: USA


@ Vavavoom:

"I just bought mine, 2 hours ago.                           "

Congratulations, and welcome to :The Fold"!

Steve

quote
reply

February 16, 2014 - 1:20pm
orbit

Country: UK


Do you think there could be more frames out there with the same problem? If so would it effect all the tern bikes with this frame. Ie the D8, P9 and the uno etc?

Are Tern frames made all in the same factory?

February 19, 2014 - 10:05pm
Steveroot

Country: USA


I hope we see some information about this soon, as it's been 2 months since the first incident of this type was reported. Three reported failures are still a very small percentage of total production, yet not having any information about the manner of failure, the production dates of the three frames, etc., it's easy to imagine it's a larger problem. And it may be. If it isn't, a few words of explanation would go a long way towards making people relax a bit.

Steve
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February 20, 2014 - 8:29am
Steveroot

Country: USA


With all due respect, there has been a lot of concern expressed by Tern representatives, but as yet no information has been released. After two months, this "radio silence" is disturbing, not least because it is so uncharacteristic of past responses to defect issues. Compared to other bicycle manufacturers, Tern has had a gratifyingly and reassuringly transparent reaction to reported problems. The bar has been set pretty high. It would be good to hear at least a little news about the status of the investigation into the current issue.

Sorry to be a pest.

Steve

February 20, 2014 - 12:30pm
Rager

Joined: 2013-05-04
Country: France


Steve, As a fairly new owner of a Link D8, I second that 100% 3 reported frame failures is totally unacceptable and I would have expected an immediate response with regular updates from Tern.

The problem has alreay been reported on YouTube and in these days of social networking, such a problem needs 1st class attention to prevent potentially catastrophic damage to the company.

I have to say, had I read the forums before buying I bike, I would have had serious doubts given the numberous problems reported. Frame failure would have steered me well clear and I'm now more worried than ever about riding my bike until we hear something more from the company.

PLEASE don't wait for a serious injury or worse before responding.

A very concerned rider.

February 20, 2014 - 12:53pm
vavavoom

Country: Greece

Steveroot wrote:

With all due respect, there has been a lot of concern expressed by Tern representatives, but as yet no information has been released. After two months, this "radio silence" is disturbing, not least because it is so uncharacteristic of past responses to defect issues. Compared to other bicycle manufacturers, Tern has had a gratifyingly and reassuringly transparent reaction to reported problems. The bar has been set pretty high. It would be good to hear at least a little news about the status of the investigation into the current issue.

Sorry to be a pest.

Steve

I second that.

But probably nobody wants to publish incomplete results, as it would cause a bigger mix-up than staying silent until they have something to say.

BTW, thanks Steve for your welcome! I am happy to be in 'The Fold' .

March 25, 2014 - 11:13am
thor



Country: USA


sure that Tern will do the right thing
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February 21, 2014 - 9:04am
Steveroot

Country: USA

thor wrote:

The bike industry is full of JRA ( Just riding along ) stories, some of them are unfortunately complete hogwash, and these unfortunate ones are making the problem worse, as a manufacturer is searchin feaverishly for any reason of a breakage.

Not that I think these three reports are made-up (I don't), but some official response would 1) confirm or deny that these events (or at least one, after 2 months) are real and 2) provide some indication of what steps are being taken to deal with them, and thereby 3) prevent further wild speculation about the prevalence of this problem.

thor wrote:

Because of these cases and also because of some crazy lawyers, there is a very defined system how to deal with a problem like this

That is what i meant in 2) above. A well-defined system shouldn't be secret.



This is the other side of the "double-edged sword" when opportunities for open communication about product issues are provided and their use is encouraged. It's one of the many things about Tern's corporate philosophy that I find admirable, but once the genie is out of the bottle it's hard to put back.

Steve
__________________

February 23, 2014 - 9:41am
orbit

Country: UK


I'm sure that the riders were riding their bikes as they were intended. Steve is correct though the genie is out of the bottle. There have now been 3 frames that have failed. On the face of it in the same place. Whether all three had the same cause is yet to be discovered.

February 23, 2014 - 9:43pm
Plne

Joined: 2014-02-01
Country: New Zealand


This does make me pause, I have to admit.

I was about to go down and finally purchase the C7 I've had my eye on for the last month or so. It was that or a D8.

I see a comment above that all of these frame-fails occured in bikes manufactured at the same time. Can anyone confirm the time when these bikes were manufactured?

I think it is essential that an explanation is provided as to how these frames snapped. Something of this nature is potentially lethal.

Of course, it is true that a harmless world/biking experience cannot be guaranteed, but 3 bike frames shearing in the same place is alarming.



edit: That's bikes 'purchased' at the same time, not 'manufactured'. And that time appears to be early 2013. Let's hope the issue can be pin-pointed to a time-frame, identified and then genuinely dealt with.

February 25, 2014 - 3:25am
Plne

Country: New Zealand


Well Josh, it's good to hear you say that Tern is taking the issue seriously. And good to hear what Tern does to try and ensure frame integrity. What you say, however, has nothing specific to say about the frame failures that occured in the same place on the 3 different bikes talked of here.

There is no reason to believe those 3 people are making it up - nobody has suggested it, let alone offered any evidence to show the stories are fabricated.

The simple facts of the matter are that three bikes purchased in the same period have fallen apart while being ridden. What's to say that won't happen to me and my newly purchased D8? Your philosophical, 'frame failures sometimes do occur' does not reassure.

Moreover, there could be many more incidents than the ones reported here. Logic and the law of probabilities suggests this is more than likely.

I'm sure you can appreciate that a customer considering purchasing a Tern bike might be wary. And a customer considering purchasing a Tern bike made in the beginning half of 2013 very wary.

The ideal would be to tell us Tern has worked out exactly what happened with those three bikes and what specifically they are doing to make sure it doesn't happen again.

February 25, 2014 - 5:39am
newfolding

Country: USA


I was interested in purchasing a Tern D8 and happened to come across this forum. I'll be waiting to see the resolution of this thread with interest.

February 25, 2014 - 7:06am
Rager

Country: France


Like Plne, having purchased a D8 in 2013, I think we are due something more reassuring than ''frame failures sometimes happen''.

Regards.

February 27, 2014 - 4:01pm
Keith C. Johns


Country: USA


j

osh.hon wrote:
Any failures on our bikes, especially frames, are taken very seriously. We're giving the issue a lot of attention and we're constantly improving our processes. Briefly we do a few things to maintain frame integrity: We design our frames to exceed EN (European) standards (the toughest in the industry) for frame strength and durability. Every frame design needs to pass independent testing at a third-party, certified test lab. This is unusual in the industry as most companies test in house on machines at the factory - what's known as self-certification. Outside testing is very expensive (especially when you have several dozens of frames to test) but we feel better knowing that an independent party has done this testing. We randomly pull 0.1% of mass produced frames from the production line and test the frames to destruction. This ensures that in-line production is consistent with the original design. We also continue to refine manufacturing processes to ensure ever higher safety margins. All this said, frame failures sometimes do occur. Sometimes it is due to the way the product is used. Sometimes it is due to defect in manufacture. If we feel there's an issue with our frames, we'll bring them back and get them replaced. Josh

Thanks Josh,

Your independent testing is very thorough and reassuring. Thanks for the glimpse behind the scenes there; obviously you guys take all of this very seriously and are working to improve your product line constantly.

I would love to know just a couple statistics if they can be released:

1) How many of this particular model bike (Link D8) have been sold to date? This would put into perspective the three known failures to date. If you have sold just ten, then three failures would be 30% which would be crazy high, but if there are 10,000 out there, three is a statistical blip. This would be of reassurance to us all.

2) Your test to failure of all of your bike frames must establish an estimated lifespan of each of your models given average use.

A) Did your artificial tests indicate that this particular model showed a tendency to have a shorter lifespan than other models? (This might reassure owners of your other models which may be more durable.)

B) What is the estimated lifespan of this model? Of all your bikes?

Are bikes designed for lifetime use anymore? Or are they considered more like computers: use and replace every five years?

My concept of bike longevity may be old fashioned and outdated. What is standard today? Is it accepted generally that we can not have both light weight and lifetime ownership of bicycles today? Is it true that generally for light weight we have to accept that the bike will not last our lifetimes? Or perhaps bikes are still made to last for the lifetime of the purchaser? These standards have moved since I was a kid and I would like to know if I need to update my expectations.

Thank you for taking the time to talk to us here.